[00:06:10] --- stevenjenkins has become available [00:13:10] --- stevenjenkins has left [00:19:59] --- stevenjenkins has become available [00:36:02] --- haba has left [00:44:44] --- dev-zero@jabber.org has become available [00:54:35] --- dragos.tatulea has become available [00:54:44] hi [01:08:39] --- Russ has left: Disconnected [02:42:50] --- dlc has become available [03:13:56] --- stevegt has left [03:17:32] --- stevegt has become available [04:49:35] hi dragos [05:16:29] --- haba has become available [05:24:51] --- abo has become available [05:27:27] hi :) [05:27:31] hello [05:28:29] didn't know about this room, haba sent me here because i needed help, hehe [05:28:47] don't read openafs lists? [05:28:59] or did i not trumpet this place loud enough? [05:30:38] * haba told abo :) [05:31:32] on and off... it seems moving my list subscriptions to my personal mail server made me pay less attention to lists... [05:32:16] need to catch up on that :) [05:37:21] ugh, my mail is a mess. oh well... nevermind [05:37:55] if the server is sending weird things like "rx data fs reply get-time 1977/01/22 15:03:09 (156)" or "rx data fs reply get-time 2032/09/21 02:53:52 (164)" [05:38:00] what does that mean? [05:38:45] and the server clock is right? [05:39:09] yup [05:39:37] it does also send "rx data fs reply get-time 2008/11/25 14:13:05 (36)", first, before the other two [05:39:56] possibly memory corruption [05:40:18] and if it only send that to a specific client? [05:42:09] --- haba has left [05:44:21] * abo hmms [05:44:59] then the memory corruption is only happening in the stack when you do, i guess [05:45:22] --- haba has become available [05:53:04] mmph [05:53:35] I need to stop staying up until 2am if I'm getting up at ~8 [05:54:09] why? I was up at 2am and got up at 6am [05:54:22] * abo blinks [05:54:49] do you enjoy pain? [05:55:00] I fail to understand why anyone would do that [05:56:50] i've been getting more sleep than usual because i'm sick. that means about 6 hours a night [05:57:29] i don't know what's worse, hardware or software memory corruption :) [05:57:35] perhaps I have a skewed world view [05:59:34] i try to go to sleep before midnight, but it rarely happens... up at around 7. [06:00:33] college should have a mandatory 1 credit naptime class [06:09:15] perhaps its the lack of spicy foods [06:10:17] haha [06:10:17] like drpepper? :) [06:12:05] sorta... minus the dr [06:14:12] so, web design :) [06:15:16] I think the web on the whole is utterly undesigned. [06:15:23] its shocking that it works at all [06:17:08] actually, I tend to agree. It still astounds me how many unprofessional 90s looking sites I run into, even for large businesses [06:18:01] oh it works, it's just completely insecure [06:18:31] http://www.alexander.bostrom.net/blog/?p=115 [06:19:23] --- haba has left [06:20:29] lets discuss the site map [06:21:25] There were a lot of things that could fit into multiple categories, and I tried to choose the one that would fit the best, although there was some duality in certain cases [06:21:38] what I am looking for in a site map is a listing of all of the potential pages, the content that will be present on each page and most importantly the flow of control between the pages [06:22:47] --- haba has become available [06:23:40] users will move around the site based upon the questions they are trying to obtain answers to. it is quite likely that the same material will be accessible from multiple locations and perhaps viewed in different ways [06:24:29] right, that makes sense. Do we know the extent of the content that will be generated/available? [06:24:31] a CTO is going to be looking for a different subset of info vs an admin vs an end user [06:25:00] one of the goals of this project is to determine what content needs to be generated [06:25:29] if we design to what we already have available, we will be stuck with the current web site [06:26:23] sure. Should I just assume we'll be able to generate whatever content is necessary when building the initial sitemap? [06:26:31] yes [06:27:08] worst case is that content is replaced with a "soon to come" sign when the site goes live [06:27:20] I see [06:28:17] are there specific things about the sitemap I uploaded that you don't like? or did it feel like I was missing overall what you'd like to see [06:28:45] its the start of a site map but it isn't one yet [06:29:01] it reads to me as the contents of a home page [06:29:35] it doesn't have any depth [06:30:04] it's the branches and not really a whole map [06:30:20] ok, that makes sense [06:32:24] I'm still toying with navigational schemes, and it's gonna need some more work [06:33:08] to some extents the navigational schemes are independent of the map. The map should layout the relationships of the data. [06:34:10] ok, I can flesh that out [06:34:28] on an unrelated site-note. Is it worth asking the FreeBSD people what they're using CMS wise? [06:34:32] looking at the freebsd.org site as an example, there is significant overlap in the links that are available on each page depending upon which branch is taken from the home page [06:34:44] it doesn't hurt to ask [06:35:38] more information is always a good thing [06:36:23] I think it would be useful to map out the freebsd web site and then trim off the items that are not relevant. [06:37:18] we don't have hardware vendors at the moment that incorporate our software but by putting up a category for it, perhaps we might get some :) [06:38:49] I started with the FreeBSD site map, theirs links back the pages, and we don't have that yet [06:39:27] wherein they have a built product, we have an idea, They don't need to flesh out content, because they can re-direct you [06:39:29] we don't have anything yet [06:40:06] --- dmontuori has become available [06:40:25] we have a lot more than an idea [06:40:41] we have a product that is used by thousands of orgs around the globe [06:40:55] we have a working product. we just have a crippled web site [06:41:00] there are several commercial companies that provide support [06:41:11] yes, by idea I meant for content [06:41:15] there is lots of content around the web that can be linked to [06:41:48] create the site map as if the content will be there [06:41:56] I bet we have more of it than you think [06:43:12] its just unorganized and not readily accessible because its not incorporated into a coherent interface [06:44:13] yes, I agree. I'll spend some time on the trip to NE today on fleshing out content [06:44:52] I don't think there is anything wrong with stealing the freebsd site map and using it as a starting point. [06:45:06] it's not entirely unrelated. [06:45:31] that's where I started, so I hope there's nothing wrong with it :) [06:45:44] there isn't. steal more :) [06:46:06] :-P [06:46:59] oh. 1) Derrck, were you going to talk to someone who had experience writing surveys? [06:47:05] the wiki is probably a poor tool to use to describe the map. [06:47:20] 2) Haven't had a chance to test installation of limesurvey [06:47:33] you think a mind-mapping tool would work better? [06:47:48] --- dmontuori has left [06:47:54] --- dmontuori has become available [06:48:15] I was thinking Microsoft Visio or some equivalent [06:48:28] i haven't seen her yet. [06:49:03] Visio is essentially a powerful mind-map tool, right? [06:49:07] --- haba has left [06:49:19] --- haba has become available [06:49:29] I have no experience with Visio beyond faking floor plans with it [06:51:05] mind-mapping is an apt description [06:51:41] its a type of map that can be generated with Visio [06:51:55] Ok [06:53:02] Visio permits you to visually create logical objects and define relationships between them. Visio can then organize the objects in a 2D view [06:53:51] that sounds like all the other mind-mapping tools, (Xmind, etc.) [06:53:53] a better description for a site map would be a work flow diagram [06:54:24] right, that makes sense [06:54:35] I've gotta run soonish [06:55:10] about 5 minutes [06:55:17] well, i think we're on the same page now [06:55:50] if we don't speak with you, have a happy Thanksgiving and safe travels [06:56:07] indeed. [06:56:11] I'll be online for short periods of time I assume [06:56:23] I can't imagine a day without you :) [06:56:33] enjoy both of your Thanksgivings, and I'll be in touch at some point [06:56:48] that's because I can't imagine a day without internet access :-P [06:56:54] --- dmontuori has left [06:57:04] --- dmontuori has become available [06:57:53] at least this presents a pretty page http://www.insilmaril.de/vym/ [06:59:48] gotta run, I'll be in touch [07:05:11] --- dragos.tatulea has left [07:56:22] --- reuteras has left [08:09:13] --- manfred furuholmen has left [08:09:17] --- manfred furuholmen has become available [08:19:26] hmm... restarting the client made the weird get-time from the server go away [08:21:02] --- matt has become available [08:21:07] --- stevegt has left: Replaced by new connection [08:21:07] --- stevegt has become available [08:50:49] --- stevegt has left: Lost connection [08:50:49] --- dev-zero@jabber.org has left: Lost connection [09:06:13] --- manfred furuholmen has left [09:06:48] --- stevegt has become available [09:06:52] --- dev-zero@jabber.org has become available [09:07:01] --- manfred furuholmen has become available [09:07:07] --- manfred furuholmen has left [09:38:14] --- Russ has become available [09:40:01] --- haba has left [09:43:18] --- dev-zero@jabber.org has left [10:19:09] --- Russ has left: Disconnected [10:19:54] --- Russ has become available [10:22:35] abo: what weird get-time? 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