[00:04:04] --- manfred furuholmen has become available [00:16:12] --- dev-zero@jabber.org has become available [01:57:37] --- dev-zero@jabber.org has left [01:58:49] --- dev-zero@jabber.org has become available [03:47:02] --- manfred furuholmen has left [04:58:44] --- haba has become available [04:58:54] "good" day. [05:00:02] The shit hit the fan, so I have to do a "tar czf - *537086393.vol AFSIDat/t0/tao+U | rsh -x ..." for a couple of volumes. Do I have to think of anything more than -p when tar -x? [05:00:46] I'm standing in /vicepa of a RAID that barely holds together, [05:01:02] had a double disk fail in RAID5. [05:02:42] (fileserver on that box is OFF) [05:10:44] epic fail! [05:11:47] p should be sufficient. [05:12:18] like, preserving owner group mode is all you need. [05:12:24] As I suspected. But in these situations, I want another pairs of eyes. [05:17:20] Then I thought running a vos syncserv. How does vos_syncserv react when an old entry is still in the vldb (with other server listed) or should I delentry first? [05:19:30] is the old server still up? is the volume still there? [05:22:28] the old server is down [05:23:13] delentry is best [05:24:24] The name will be recreated from the info in the volume on fileserver, right? [05:25:21] yes, if you are concerned back up the database before starting [05:27:39] I don't think I'm concerned that I have the wrong names in the volumes. It;s only 10 volumes. [06:41:15] --- haba has left [06:42:00] --- haba has become available [06:44:28] --- mmeffie has become available [06:55:50] --- stevegt has left: Replaced by new connection [06:55:50] --- stevegt has become available [07:18:33] --- dmontuori has become available [07:44:30] --- manfred furuholmen has become available [07:45:17] --- Russ has become available [07:49:40] --- reuteras has left [08:31:47] --- dmontuori has left [08:31:55] --- dmontuori has become available [08:40:43] --- manfred furuholmen has left [08:43:06] --- manfred furuholmen has become available [08:56:41] --- mmeffie has left [09:06:55] --- Moose has become available [09:09:19] --- haba has left [09:33:53] --- stevegt has left [10:01:41] is gcpags still functional? [10:02:22] I think it depends on your kernel. [10:02:28] linux [10:02:36] Not helping. [10:02:49] ie, re: Ben Poliakoff's problem [10:03:22] ancient history is that for webservers you run gcpags regularly. [10:03:29] but I have no idea if that's still true today. hence my question here. [10:04:09] I think there may be problems with gcpags and keyrings (ie, gcpags doesn't happen if you've got keyrings, because the keyring cleanup function should deal). But, my impression from stuff people have been saying is that keyring cleanup doesn't always seem to deal properly. [10:04:20] I've never had the inclination to investigate in any detail though. [10:04:25] * stevenjenkins nods. tx. [10:04:28] in 1.4.8 gcpags tries harder to be functional, and tries harder to disable itself if it would oops [10:04:33] Also, gcpags is occasionally unsafe on some kernels. [10:04:42] less true in 1.4.8 [10:04:50] prior to 1.4.8, i don't care [10:04:51] Which is why "Linux" fails to be a useful answer to 'which kernel' [10:04:59] gotcha. [10:05:04] (because the code was known to have issues and i am not going to issue 1.4.7a, 1.4.6a, etc) [10:05:56] --- dmontuori has left [10:05:58] Awww, but making releases is such _fun_. [10:06:03] --- dmontuori has become available [10:06:34] --- dmontuori has left [10:06:51] --- dmontuori has become available [10:42:32] --- dlc has left [10:42:59] --- dlc has become available [10:44:33] --- dmontuori has left [10:44:39] --- dmontuori has become available [10:52:26] --- dmontuori has left [10:52:32] --- dmontuori has become available [11:08:18] --- SecureEndpoints has left: Replaced by new connection [11:10:12] --- manfred furuholmen has left [11:35:30] --- dev-zero@jabber.org has left [11:50:24] --- haba has become available [11:52:19] And what gcpags behaviour is default in Linux/1.4.8? [11:53:16] --- stevegt has become available [12:09:56] If the system has keyrings, gcpags isn't done at all. [13:02:31] Russ: For my computing environment, no gcpags at all is much better than gc between two logins with some seconds in between of same UID(pag). That happened in earlier versions. [13:09:38] --- dev-zero@jabber.org has become available [13:22:04] If you have keyrings, you don't need gcpags; the keyring code cleans up. [13:26:23] I think the keyring code _should_ cleanup. There seems to be some evidence that it doesn't. [13:31:26] Ah, hm, you may be right. [13:39:18] Has anyone seen Dragos around recently? [13:39:47] not me [13:40:12] me neither actually [13:40:29] I ate him [13:40:45] Well, that really wasn't very considerate of you, was it? [13:40:48] !!! but.. but.. he wrote disconnected ops [13:40:54] Since when am I considerate? [13:41:20] I'm going to reserve my right not to answer that question. [13:42:08] what's the great britain version of the US's fifth amendment :-P [13:42:23] magna carta >_> [13:42:33] We don't have one. [13:42:33] --- manfred furuholmen has become available [13:42:34] section V [13:42:41] Hi Moose (hug) [13:42:43] There's no right against self incrimination in British law. [13:42:52] so you always lose? [13:42:53] harald! [13:43:19] do the cops read you 'miranda' rights etc. in Britain? [13:43:33] You are read your rights, but they're different. [13:43:37] in GB, you get arrested and the cops say, "You're boned. Let's go." [13:43:46] apparently [13:44:01] are you required to talk to the cops? [13:44:10] It's referred to as being 'questioned under caution' [13:44:27] You're not required to tell them anything, but a court can infer guilt from your silence. [13:44:28] "You have the right to cable tv. You have the right to not eat broccoli. You have the right to turn cartwheels." [13:45:07] a court can infer guilt from your silence? so it sounds like moose was spot on then [13:45:35] the US is very rare for the right to be (allegedly) innocent until proven guilty [13:45:36] The wording of the caution is "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something you later rely on in Court. Anything you say may be given in evidence" [13:46:08] We have innocent until proven guilty too - but a far wider set of information can be made available to the court. [13:46:20] intriguing [13:46:35] in other words, don't get caught [13:46:57] For instance, if you exercise your right to silence, but then, in court, say "I was at Bob's at the time", the prosecution can ask why you didn't say that when originally interviewed. [13:46:58] it's pretty much north america, western europe and oceania. Most other places, you're REALLY boned. [13:47:14] Pretty much the colonies :) [13:47:23] *snort* [13:47:43] * Russ normally finds that legal systems are not particularly comparable across jurisdictions like that. Just because you would be totally screwed if you took US law and removed the fifth amendment doesn't necessarily mean that the lack of that provision is as nasty in a different legal system in which court trials and defense work differently. [13:48:06] Yes. The common roots are pretty far back and distant now. [13:48:37] russ, that's a valid point [13:48:42] --- haba has left [13:48:58] But the altering of the caution, and the ability to draw inferences from a suspects silence is a really recent change here, and still relatively controversial. [13:49:03] I'm not particularly familiar with UK law, but I know that in Dutch law (I think it was -- it might have been Norwegian, but I think it was Dutch), the whole process is just so utterly different that I found it hard to anticipate which bits might matter and which wouldn't. [13:49:33] are you familiar w/ the Dutch judicial system? :-P [13:49:46] Well, until really recently, in Scotland a cause could be found "Not Proven" (in addition to Guilty or Not Guilty). That always confused people. [13:49:47] Yeah, it sounded like the UK did some of the similar stuff to what the US did and waived or changed a lot of civil protections in the name of "fighting terrorism." [13:50:11] US has something like not proven, it's called. Um. [13:50:13] crap. [13:50:16] wait, not crap [13:50:31] nolo contendo (or something similar) [13:50:31] Yes. Although we did try detention-without-trial-accompanied-by-torture first (in Ireland, in the 1970s. It didn't go so well) [13:50:32] I think [13:50:36] * Russ is only familiar with the Dutch (unless it was Norwegian) judicial system because one of the Debian Developers was selected as a citizen judge, which is a thing they have instead of juries, and wrote up the whole thing for people who weren't familiar with the process in his blog. It was fascinating. [13:50:47] No contest is not very functionally different than guilty in the US system. [13:51:07] --- haba has become available [13:51:09] oh, i'm thinking of .. yeah. nolo contendre is "do not contest", basically saying, "I accept hte punishment but do not admit guilt." it can only come from a defendent [13:51:28] is that different than Not Proven? [13:51:31] Not proven essentially meant that the jury believed that you'd done it, but that the prosecution had failed to establish "beyond reasonable doubt" [13:51:51] what happens to you then? [13:51:55] I think the only difference between no contest and guilty is that you don't have to allocute and they can't use yor plea as evidence in civil procedings. What Simon's talking about is entirely different; it's a different form of not guilty. [13:51:56] You go free. [13:52:09] yeah, i was confused [13:52:13] a common state for the moose [13:52:21] I see [13:52:35] ok, back to digging through radmind and praying for death [13:52:41] gods i hate configuration management [13:52:44] Not proven basically covers the difference between reasonable preponderance of the evidence and beyond a reasonable doubt, as I understand it. [13:52:45] And double jeopardy still applies. So, the only real difference is that everyone around you thinks you got away with it, rather than that you didn't do it. [13:53:10] double jeopardy. WITh the daily double! [13:53:47] Yes. It was abolished as part of the last big law review here, because it was felt that it let juries off the hook. [13:55:35] moose: there are two daily doubles in double jepardy [13:55:39] jeopardy* [13:58:21] --- summatusmentis26657 has become available [13:58:21] --- summatusmentis26657 has left [13:58:21] --- summatusmentis38964 has become available [13:58:26] --- summatusmentis38964 has left [13:59:27] iChat makes anger happen [13:59:56] Sadness available in a service pack upgrade. [14:16:29] --- haba has left [14:30:35] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [14:41:15] --- SecureEndpoints has left: Replaced by new connection [14:55:09] --- manfred furuholmen has left [15:05:50] --- Moose has left [15:55:28] --- dmontuori has left [16:13:08] woot... wine! [16:22:20] got some of that [17:43:16] --- stevegt has left [18:03:06] --- Russ has left: Disconnected [18:20:32] --- Russ has become available [19:09:01] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [19:11:27] --- SecureEndpoints has left: Replaced by new connection [19:41:21] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [19:43:24] --- SecureEndpoints has left: Replaced by new connection [20:11:46] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [20:11:52] --- SecureEndpoints has left [20:16:45] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [20:17:00] --- SecureEndpoints has left [20:22:03] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [20:22:53] --- SecureEndpoints has left: Replaced by new connection [20:25:22] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [20:25:27] --- SecureEndpoints has left [20:31:57] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [20:32:04] --- SecureEndpoints has left [20:33:33] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [20:33:42] --- SecureEndpoints has left [20:37:27] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [20:37:30] --- SecureEndpoints has left [20:42:15] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [20:42:19] --- SecureEndpoints has left [20:50:58] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [20:51:00] --- SecureEndpoints has left [20:57:30] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [20:57:34] --- SecureEndpoints has left [21:07:20] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [21:26:16] --- SecureEndpoints has left: Replaced by new connection [21:28:18] --- SecureEndpoints has become available [21:39:10] --- SecureEndpoints has left: Replaced by new connection [22:18:34] --- Russ has left: Disconnected [23:00:48] --- reuteras has become available [23:53:53] --- manfred furuholmen has become available